Debating RSI, the US-China Gap, and Jaggedness with JS Denain of Epoch AI
Epoch AI's JS Denain and Nathan Lambert debate recursive self-improvement timelines and the narrowing US-China AI capability gap.
“A big takeaway of this podcast is how JS and I both have so much uncertainty with exactly where we are heading”— Nathan Lambert
In an Interconnects podcast, Epoch AI's JS Denain and Nathan Lambert dig into the evidence behind imminent RSI claims from OpenAI and Anthropic, the role of robotics, and how far behind Chinese labs actually are. Both emphasize deep uncertainty about AI's trajectory while offering moderate, faster-scenario-leaning views grounded in Epoch's measurements. It matters because it surfaces nuanced, data-driven framing on the two debates—self-improvement speed and US-China competition—most shaping frontier AI strategy.